Second Life - Renee Dua, MD: Heal Co-Founder and Chief Medical Officer

Renee Dua, MD, is a nephrologist and internist. She helmed her own private practice in Los Angeles and served as chief of medicine at Valley Presbyterian and Simi Valley Hospitals. But after years in the healthcare industry, and one particularly frustrating visit to the ER on the patient’s side of things, Dua had a lightbulb moment. In creating a new kind of healthcare system based around house calls and telehealth, she could cut down on patient wait times and create accessibility for those for

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Hi everyone. I'm Hillary Kerr the co-founder and chief content officer of who what wear and this is second life a podcast spotlighting women who have been truly inspiring careers. We're talking about their work Journeys what they've learned from the process of setting aside their doubts or fears and what happens when they embark on their second life today on the podcast. I'm speaking with the co-founder of heel. Dr. Renee Dua. Dr. Dua is a nephrologist and an internal medicine doctor. She had her own private practice in addition to being the chief of medicine at Valley Presbyterian and Simi Valley hospital, but as she rose up the ranks, she also became more and more frustrated with the Antiquated Healthcare System and after one difficult trip to the ER with her son her frustration turned into a lightbulb moment within weeks doctor do

And her husband had built a nap and secured funding to provide a new kind of healthcare with heel instead of going to a doctor's office or Hospital appointments are held directly in patients homes heel is reducing patient wait times and creating accessibility for folks who may have a hard time getting to a doctor's office in the first place. He'll is now in eight states or with over a hundred and fifty doctors and Healthcare Providers and has plans for further expansion as the CMO or chief medical officer. In this case. It's clear that doctor do what is the perfect woman for the job. But still it's a pivot that she could not have predicted her story is so fascinating and so Timely

So with no further Ado now on second life, it's dr. Renee Dua.

Okay, so Renee, we like to start at the beginning on this podcast. So what did you study in school? And what did you think you were going to be when you grew up? So I've always had an interest in in basic sciences. And so even in high school, I was most excited by my courses in biology and reproduction and those sorts of topics. I thought I was going to be a teacher. So by the time I got to college I spent a lot of time being a teacher's assistant and tutoring I did a lot of work with kids in the community and and help them with their schoolwork. It wasn't until I would say I'm sitting here into college that I really thought. You know, what being a doctor is a great mix of both being a teacher and this science teas that I really liked got it. Okay, so you decided to go premat I assume

I did I did I did a lot of studying literature as well because I loved my lit classes in in high school. So I have a degree as well in literature in English literature to be exact that makes two of us, but I am not a doctor so after college and then I assume med school you did your residency at UCLA an internal medicine and then a fellowship in Nephrology at USC. So I'm not an expert in the trajectory and the training in medicine and I'm hoping that maybe you can explain that process a little bit and talk about the difference between a residency and fellowship and I happen to know that Nephrology has to do with the kidneys because my high school boyfriend's father did that I'm hoping you can walk us through a little bit about what exactly Nephrology is sure thing. So when you decide to become a doctor in and typically, you know, is it in general? I should say happens when you're in college.

You are setting yourself up for a long road a school work after college is four years of medical school after the four years of medical school, you typically pick a residency. So that is in a general topic like internal medicine or Pediatrics or maybe a Surgical Specialty after that residency. You can then do what is called a fellowship where you specialize more. So for example, I did Internal Medicine which is the study of adult medicine and then I spent an extra three years after that training in the study of kidney diseases and I spent the last part of that three years focusing on high blood pressure and the management of it and I also focused a lot on France laugh. So when both have kidneys that fail Unfortunately, they might go on a machine called dialysis to clean their blood and a very lucky few get to have a transplant kidney and that transplant.

He takes over the job of a dialysis. So I focused on that why Nephrology why were you so interested in kidneys? It's a great question, you know through my career. I've always looked for the things that I I thought were great amalgamations of the other things I love so because I love that science piece. The study of kidneys is honestly the most basic part of our our life on earth, right. The reason we are not fish the reason we do not you know swimming in Ocean. The reason we walk on land is because of the function of our kidneys it maintains are acid base status are kidneys keeps our blood cells growing are kidneys manage our electrolyte everything about who we are as humans is based on this chemical understanding that our body has and how we function on a cellular level and I thought you know what this is.

Such a cool field. I'll never get sick of it. It will always be fascinating to me and it sure has been all these years later. I have always heard that nephrologist are some of the smartest doctors just in general because the kidneys are so complex and interact with all of the different body parts and such unique and interesting ways that you have to be like particularly clever particularly studious particularly intelligent. I'm to really understand the full scope of the kidney which tracks with your point about it being continually interested and I will say it's funny also that you say that because when I was in my training and we had a case where we didn't know how to help the patient it would they would either always call in a nephrologist or an infectious disease specialist, cuz we are the two that have that reputation of knowing how to bring the whole case together and figure out what in the hell is going on, right? I'm certainly humbled by that but the smartest doctors I know.

Nephrologist my father's in the college's which I think helped me to have that exposure but it was also seeing I think in the Intensive Care Unit how important it was to have functioning kidneys that made me realize how much we helped other Specialists bring a case together and help keep that patient alive interesting. Okay. So so you did your residency you did your fellowship you has been in school for a very long time at this point from their what were the career options that you saw in front of you. And what route did you end up deciding to go down and why so I'm embarrassed to tell you that when I was a fellow I was one of the first girls that are program really ever took we fired our first email attending so our first female, you know, clinician boss our first female program director when I was a fellow

Which is unbelievable that wasn't that long ago. I finished Fellowship. There was still no line for the women's restroom at our conferences. Right? It was a completely male-dominated specialty 85% of it maybe more 90% of nephrologist were men when I took on a job as a nephrologist. I was the first female in my neighborhood for I think years and years and certainly the first one within a 10 or 15 mile radius of my office location. I was also one of the few that spoke Spanish fluently and so my career kind of found me because the folks that end up with kidney disease unfortunately are by and large especially in a city like Los Angeles Hispanic and they need to be able to communicate with their physician in a in a manner in which she can respond and a

Best so I became very busy very quickly as a private practice and probably just I had a ton of female patient. I had a ton of Hispanic patients and because I had a following of sorts it became interesting for me to take on administrative positions because when you look at a lot of administrative positions in many Specialties, it's not just medicine. It's broadcast. It's podcast is business development. It's Hospital management. What you see is a lot of men who don't necessarily speak several languages and and probably not Spanish and so it became interesting to me to take on his administrative rules to help my own Community, you know as much as I'm not Hispanic to some extent they're Community has become my community because I try to help and when you're helping somebody's and she's going to tell you to help her sister and her brother and her parents until you grow a practice this way.

So it like this I I became very involved in administration and because I never stopped loving the business of teaching. I also made into teaching position at UCLA and at USC. So I was doing that. I was actually doing that for free for years until it just became too hairy. Honestly to manage all of these things Wow. Let's talk about the process of setting up a private practice. So how do you go into business for yourself as a doctor? I mean, obviously it per your explanation. It seems like your patients found you and that there was some great Word of Mouth due to the fact that you speak Spanish in the fact that your woman but what were some of those early days like and then let's get into the chief of medicine stuff. So the early days of starting a practice or not. They're not easy for anybody. And in fact, if you notice most people do not go into

Add a practice anymore. They get a job where somebody else manages their practice. So I got a couple things for me that were good fortune one. I had a father who helped me tremendously. He was in private practice. He was kind of looking to make a a switch in his own career. I interviewed at several places, but ultimately my father presented a practice to me that I could grow on my own and for lack of better words, I could automate and make more Progressive. So when I decided to join my dad what I did was first learn the process of how to hire people right? Because when we go to medical school, we don't learn Human Resources, we don't learn Business Development. We don't learn how to rent a bloody office space. So these were the things I honestly I mean it sounds weird. And by the way, this was before, you know, this was kind of at the start of the internet, right? So, you know, it's not like you

Google how do I start a medical practice? You wouldn't have found much, but what I did and I'm embarrassed to tell you of all the mistakes I made but the one of the first things I did was got myself in the Yellow Pages, right? Cuz that was offencive thing then and by the way, I didn't understand how the Yellow Pages work. So I wasn't in the real Yellow Pages. I ended up paying for like 20 of the fake Yellow Pages to and it was very expensive. And I also I got myself privileged at hospital. So you sign up to be able to see patients on a hospital and I put myself on ER call. So what does that mean? That means I would at night be on call and I had a call service that would route calls to me and every time a patient needed to be admitted. I would accept that patient and you learn how to do this in residency and fellowship. I would admit that patient under my name and I would take care of her through her Hospital stay and piece-by-piece. Is it first started doing just general?

Internal medicine to take care of these patients but piece by piece some of these patients but have kidney disease.

So I would tell that patient. Okay, you do have some element of kidney disease. Are you have an acute injury of your kidneys? So here is my business card. Here is my phone number. I want you to call and make an appointment and I want you to come and see me and I'm in my office this day separately. I would call my office and say this is Mrs. Mary Smith. I want you to call her and make an appointment and try to get the record so we can see her in my office. And the first time I did this for the first several weeks. I would have one patient come to the office and the next few weeks. I would have to in the next few weeks. I would have three I would also.

Sit in the lounge and make friends, right and again into in medical school. You have a whole subset of doctors who do not come out with any bedside manner. Let's be honest. So why I had to learn how to be social and fun and make friends and you know, she was my mouth closed but build my business, right? I did all these little things and it was very slow. It's not like I was paying bills in the beginning I had made the decision while I was training to do some Moonlighting so I had save some money so I use that to live off of but you know most doctors we graduate with tons of loans and we're doing Moonlighting to pay back those loans. Let alone build a business. This is why people don't do it much anymore. But this is how I I started I mean I had no idea it was so entrepreneurial and like such a hot glue in the beginning that's fascinating. So let's talk about the fact that you were also the chief of medicine at Valley Presbyterian and the Simi Valley Hospital.

So what is the difference between working in a hospital vs. Private practice? And what did you like and dislike about each? So depending on the specialty that a doctor pics she can have an patient-focused specialty orientation Focus specialty in patient means you go to the hospital. So what I really loved about Nephrology was you weren't always in the hospital. You actually took your patience. Them better saw them in the office, right and then separately in Nephrology we go to dialysis units and we see our patients while they're being dialyzed. It's it's depending on which specialty you pick for example, if a doctor goes into Pediatrics, she will spend the vast majority of her time doing outpatient medicine unless she chooses to take care of kids in the hospital. So that's sort of how it works for me. I really like doing all three you really see the happenings the acute happenings of being a nephrologist in the hospital. Where as you really get to retainer.

Elation ship with your patients in the office. So I really liked those two setting and then of course because I go to dialysis units and by the way, I had patients who were on dialysis at home as well. You really see these folks fighting for their lives right using machine to stay alive and it's a very intimate relationship because they count on you so much for this very basic function of keeping their blood clean their thoughts clear in their hearts functioning. So that was how I also came into being a nephrologist so

As chief of medicine I imagine that you are managing a lot of moving Parts. What part of the job did you lie to do enjoy management at all. And what would you say is your management style?

So, you know, what's funny is that the worst thing I ever did for my career was becoming chief of anything because because especially when your chief of medicine for example in hospital, you have to manage peer-review. So you're looking at your your colleagues charting in the way, they're evaluating their patients. Are they signing and locking their notes are they right? You also are reporting to an Administration that may not be aligned with your doctor Collies. And so it's it's pretty hilarious for me to tell you that once I did these administrative roles. I got busy doing Administration, which isn't how you pay the bills to be clear and I lost friends because some of my friends were like, we'll wait a minute. Why are you reading my notes I give you business? Why how dare you judge my quality, right? So, how Ya, by the way, I know where in there did I mention patient care?

It's really pathetic that some of these things, you know are and Lord knows how many toes I'm stepping on right now. Some of these things are just the business of creating quote on quote compliance, but not in a way that is very Progressive to building collegiality in a hospital setting making sure patients are safe in a hospital setting. It's almost like you're just doing job creation, right but to what end so it's unfortunate that that was sort of my experience. I love management when you get to be a part of the team when you get to do performance when you get to see career growth and trajectory, I love that but when you're basically asked to judge your colleagues in a setting that maybe more one-sided than it should be it's not so fun to leave the system. If you don't agree with the system, right So eventually you had an idea for a new healthcare model the first things first.

To come up with the concept for heel. So I was in Texas for a while before I met my now-husband Nick and when they do I often, you know, we got married we decided to start having kids and for me in particular, it was a disastrous experience. I had a very challenging time getting pregnant staying pregnant. I was working with fertility doctors to get it done one let down after the next I ate, you know, I nearly died in the process their children were born into the NICU right which is where you know, when babies are born early they going they live and they stay alive and after we dealt with the NICU experience we

Had a son who really, you know how to early struggle in life. And so one of the nights we were seeing a pediatrician it was Friday at 5. We both came home early from work and we rushed him to get to a doctor before she closed and she looked at our sun and said look, I don't know. It's Friday. It's 5, I don't know we're closing. Just go to the ER.

Which is by the way the most, you know obtusely stupid way to deal with patients and I'm saying that as a doctor, but anyway, we we did that we went to the ER because we were freaking out and when I'm dealing with my children, I'm not a doctor. I'm a mother so we went to the ER we sat there in the waiting room. We waited and waited and finally after hours of waiting. We got called in and truthfully by the time we got called in. Our son was already looking better. So we saw a resident first and then, you know, we sign nurse and finally was on attending the attending happened to know me and to generate a what the hell are you doing here? Like, you know this right here a doctor and I was I mean, I think I was so beside myself. I just said look I am his mother and this is not you know, how could you have me? Why would a doctor do this to me? Why would I be here? Like what went wrong? What are all the things that went wrong here on the drive home? We were talking and Nick.

Like this is crazy. I mean you're a doctor. Why is this happening to us? Right eye. I would think we know everybody to make sure we don't have these stories. Imagine if you weren't a doctor and you know with my mother-in-law I told her the whole story I said, you know Mom, I really think I want to stop being the kind of doctor. I am and start doing house calls and just focus my attention on patients because what happened to me today is not the kind of patient care I ever want to give anyone. She said Renee I forbid you from going in the peace and from there Nick and I know we had a heart-to-heart about it and a few weeks later. He built me a nap. He said I love your idea. I'm going to build you and tell me about what the concept was. I mean, I'm I'm a personal fan, but for people who don't know, what was that initial concept like what was the idea behind it?

Idea was that I would be the doctor and he would be the medical assistant and we would go from house to house in our community and deliver care and we would turn on and off like an Uber because Lord knows I'm struggling with my son and I wanted to be there for him. But I also did not want to give up being a doctorate's is something I've never negotiated on that. I will always maintain a practice of medicine. So that was that was the idea. We would deliver house calls and we would start small Market small idea, you know piece by piece and I wanted to be able to turn myself on to receive visits and turn myself off when I couldn't work at the moment and doing some research. I read that you secured funding in just 3 weeks, which is

Beyond insane can you tell me about the fundraising process and how in the world is Lionel Richie involved? So right the idea that we would build an app and fundraise in 3 weeks. Nick is a master fundraiser, right? I have never met anybody that consumes magic the way Nick Cannon when he can pull a rabbit out of a hat. The concept is a great one and we pitched it to a few people but somewhere in the mix, somebody said I want to introduce you to Lionel Richie and it turns out I used to play the piano very very seriously. So I have been a fan of Lionel Richie since I was I don't know 8 years old 9 years old and for me to be able to meet the guy let alone have him be an investor and such a huge supporter of us would be out of you know, a story that I would have never believed if you had told me that 20 years ago.

We met Lionel Richie over lunch. He has a wonderful partner who we also pitched the idea to and say it was really her for whom the lights went on. She thought you know, I want my privacy respected. I don't want to go to an ER or an urgent care. I want to build a relationship with someone where I can be comfortable and I don't think they did even a day's worth of diligent honestly before they became some of our First Investors and by the way, repeat investors Lionel and his partner. These are the kind of people that if I called them today and said, you know, I need you to help me with my kids. They're the kind of people who would come and do it. That's how kind and generous they have been with their time certainly towards Nick and I wow that I mean that's just all that is amazing. So how long did it take for you to get the platform up and running? It's one thing to build something, but it's another thing.

Till I can actually figure out how everything works and I'm hoping that you can tell me a little bit about your main responsibilities in those early days. And from your perspective. What do you think the most important factors were for you to get right in terms of the service offering so I think a lot of what you're asking me about. You know, how what I did before is still what we're doing now, in other words are platform has grown tremendously and we're still trying to get it right. We are a software platform that delivers house calls and in the beginning building a dashboard that negotiated the trappings of a city like la which is humongous getting, you know from Pasadena to the South Bay, right? How many doctors should you hire should we have medical assistant? Should we be using Lyft or Uber? But these are all questions we think about today nevermind that you know, the delivery of a house called doesn't always have to be what's necessary in other words.

Why see a patient today? I don't need to go back to her living room in a week. Maybe I do a video chat or I hook her up with some of our remote monitoring devices so I can see how her blood sugars are doing and do a video chat there after right. So these are I mean this company has grown profoundly in six years and what we've always wanted to offer is this High-Tech high coordination of care my role for 6 years and I do so many odd jobs, right? Whether it be ordering, you know groceries for the kitchen or stamps the patient Lazar so many jobs, right the job that I love the most I must tell you and it's changed. I used to love so much working with doctors and and that hiring aspect but as we've grown what I've really come to love is building the software in the products for these doctors so they can build practices in their community and use all of our software to grow their patient panel and see the same people over and over and give them very high quality Care.

Okay, so tell me about that process of finding the healthcare professional is finding the doctors. Did you reach out to people you knew how was the idea receive did you have to convince people or did people get it early on in the beginning? You better believe we had to convince people, you know one of our our very first employees. You know, she she was a Charming person with great negotiating skills, and she helped you know, so we went to our networks. She went to her network and we literally begged people and I'll tell you we had many doctors join us to they didn't like the idea that the slipper keeps changing right we were building something but

In the history of everything that's been done. There was a time when it didn't work, right and we were making it work 6 years ago. So there were plenty of doctors who were liking it when you know your software broker. This didn't make me happy and I was like, oh Lordy, you know, I didn't mean it but we're building a company whereas now, you know, a fair number of people come just Word of Mouth. Honestly, I know someone so, you know, we had to have a doctor who works in Atlanta who referred a friend who works in New York law also happens to know somebody who works in San Francisco, right? So we've grown in our credibility we've grown in our process. I will tell you not every doctor should work at heal a doctor is looking for an office practice that kind of has this in and out experience you sit down in a chair for 15 minutes and do some charting and then that your patient is on that is not what he'll has built, you know, some of our patient visits take an hour.

Some of them some of them take 20 minutes, but all through it you're using software to build this experience for a patient where she becomes a member of our services and you are responsible. You take ownership for her care. We have changed so much from that on demand concept that I described you from Buena 6 years ago.

So we'll get into the value proposition for patients. Like myself. What do you think the value proposition is for a doctor for someone who is perhaps not as thrilled by the standard way of practicing medicine. Why would they find heal a peeling? So this practice is for an entrepreneur who is a physician in his or her and write the folks that join us. There are two things they want one. They want to be the future of what medicine is which in my opinion is not going to be in an office building into they want to spend time with patients in six years. I have I got well over a hundred, you know, Physicians and providers on our platform. I have literally never called anyone to say, why are you spending so much time with patients and I won't because there's a reason and they're the clinician and they should decide so those are the two qualities of a professional that that come in and want to work with us.

Love it. So tell me about the launch. You have the platform you were starting to build the network. You are having different Healthcare professionals who were signing on what was launched. Like, how did you educate people about heal? And how did you Market it lunch? We had zero visit but they want to watch we are no visit. We were all sitting looking staring at each other waiting for something to happen. We marketed it. You know again, this was 6 years ago. So there was social media. So we use social media. We had already gotten a little bit of press because of people like Lionel Richie putting the word out there, but honestly, we would we would do a lot of Grassroots stuff. We would sit in farmers markets and take people's blood pressures and give out balloons and Band-Aids and I was still going on house calls and driving around all over the place. I was our first doctor right before I believed in us, but launch was you know, it was exactly what you would see on a TV show nothing happened.

And then it was the next day in the next week. We had one patient into patience and five patients just like my practice, you know, I was very comfortable with that because I didn't but I think that the small number of people that were working with us for like holy cow. What's going to happen. Are we going to are we going to make anything of this? I mean, I do think that's an interesting point that you bring up as someone who'd already built a practice before even though this was a new medium in a new vehicle for getting people and treating people like there are some similarities there. So you had an understanding of your expectations were right size for what day one week one month one. Looks like I think that's a fair comment. I think I pride myself on being a realist and very very hard to please but willing to do the work to get it. Right right. And so I didn't give up on healed because we had zero patience launch day. I I still haven't given up.

On Hill because we can't even manage the volume we have in Atlanta. Right? Like we can't even keep up anymore with how many patients need our service there, but I didn't see your point is who do we want to be, you know, and and I've never lost sight of the fact that we want to be a software company that delivers on Healthcare outcomes, right? I always want to remember and remind myself that if he and whenever I'm confused about a problem I think like a patient and so if I were a patient I wouldn't have wanted to close down six years ago and I wouldn't give up now either right? I think we're onto something you definitely are and can I just say for the record you have a Evangelistic group of devotees in a secret Facebook group for East Side moms that I'm a part of the testimonials are outrageous, which is how I actually first came to know about you guys to tell me about your responsibilities now, so you're the chief medical officer. What is

Ashley does that mean in terms of your day today 6 years in that's a great question and I wish that I wish that it meant that all I did was focus on clinical out by time. I do a lot of oversight of HR I help with the finance team and how we spend money and how we make money. I do it on of hiring and recruiting. I'll tell you to this day if someone wants to work with us the first person they talk to his me and that sounds silly but it's because I speak the truth and I'm not a Salesman and I want you to love working with us. So you might as well hear it from the horse's mouth first. I do do a lot of clinical work. I still see patients as much as possible and wherever I can whenever I can I do a lot of strategy and I as I said love doing product design, so he'll is now in eight states and has about a hundred and fifty doctors and providers as well.

City employees and customer support roles. So what has been the most challenging part of building your team and your expansion in general might go on for patients right will patients think that the best doctor can come to that. You know, what kind of doctor is this that wouldn't work in an office building, right? And it turns out that light went on really quickly because the cityscape is changed and everything comes to us now, we certainly see that in the middle of a pandemic right? But I think now it's the business of software is the business of text. There are places where text just isn't the way people live and it's hard to build software for vulnerable populations. I'm very focused on taking care of kids and seniors and both of those populations may not have access to software may not have access to get to Tech.

Lord knows in parts of our country people don't have Wi-Fi, right? How are they going to use heal? So same is true in parts of LAX hundred percent right in south-central you wait between 60 and 90 days to see a doctor which is an embarrassment, you know, so these are things that are challenges we work very hard to solve honestly. We've always had an 800 number. We've never gotten rid of our toll-free number so that any person can call and book a visit we have E-Check because some people don't have credit cards. We have translational Services because people do not have to speak English and live in the United States. So we thought about all of these things but we're working to develop a platform that is Guardian based in other words for you Mom who has children to take care of and probably takes care of her elderly parents as well. Like that's that's where we're headed as we mentioned your husband is the CEO of heel. So we like to talk about partners.

Pause podcast because they're wonderful to have in business for a million different reasons. I'm wondering if you have any advice for people who are thinking about getting into business with a partner with whom they have a personal relationship as well. Whether it's romantic in your case or friendship. I have a female business partner colleague who we started off as friends, but I'm interested in hearing your perspective on that. So interesting Lee enough, my parents have worked together for 40-something years. And so it makes ya so we did not know any different. I will say that being the CEO at work does not mean you're the CEO at home that needs to be reconciled, you know, because

I love Nick very much and he is my best friend. And that's why this works. It's it's not even remotely close to the romance. It's the friendship and it's the fact that I'm in his ear and he's willing to listen and when he gets home, he has to turn that thing off because I'm not interested in his management plans for what's going to happen to our kids next year when LAUSD is closed right couldn't be less aacer decision in much more decision of two parents, right? So that that's kind of how we've taken on the responsibility that it rings. Let's talk a little bit about this pandemic which is obviously changed life and business as we know it and just about every single industry it in one way or another and you're certainly in the middle of it being in health-care. I'm wondering how the current climate has affected things for heel and how you're adapting. Well, as you know patients are afraid right now to go to a doctor's office or the hospital.

So we were prepared because we come to the house we provide PPE for our physicians we do preventive care. So we're still vaccinating our kids and seniors and doing their well-child exams and we know that just because we're in the middle of a pandemic doesn't mean you don't have a brewing underlying problem like high blood pressure. We are very much in business and we have continued operating in the same spirit because we use software to do video chats and remote monitoring. So again, we don't have to be in your living room if you don't want us there, but we can keep an eye on you. I also have to say just on a personal note that my husband went through a presumed positive covaryx. Ends early on in the lockdown. And so he ended up scheduling an appointment with a heel doctor per my recommendation because of this mom group and I have to say the level of care. I don't

We've ever had that level of care and a normal doctor's appointment the level of knowledge about covid-19 films and this were talking about late March early April when still there was a lot that we didn't know. I mean obviously that's changing everyday, but the level of information that he was given was so impressive and the experience all done over video and phone was tremendous and as a very critical Virgo. No, I just have to say that I really appreciate it or I'm so glad to hear it or not. That's exactly what you should have experienced. So I'm glad it went according to plan it really really did. I was I was really floored I was it was a remarkable experience you guys are doing an amazing amazing. Thank you. Don't have time right you don't have time to pull up the latest literature.

Don't have time to know what to expect. I think in the beginning of this covid-19.

So one of the things we like to talk about on this podcast is mistakes or missteps. However, you want to frame them because everyone makes them in their career and people sometimes like to pretend that they don't and that's not realistic. So I'm hoping that you can tell me about a mistake or a mistake that you've made at some point and what you've learned from it and there isn't a day that goes by that I don't I don't make mistakes. I can't think of a single day that I haven't made mistakes whether it be a how to meet the demand of a market and and how to move quickly enough to take good care of the patient is there whether it be to build the right software to support our patients needs whether it be to take on this huge undertaking of being the chief medical officer of a software company in the middle of a pandemic when I have three little kids, you know, I have a two-year-old right? She's almost to so there are there are many things that I think about that I could have done differently or better.

It's a matter for me of what do I want in some ways? I mean, I hate to say it like this but some days it's where do I want to suck at least today? Right? What are the things I'm going to do very well today and tonight. Maybe I'll get to the homework or make a decent dinner for my husband or you know, walk down the street and get some groceries for us and I have to say I do I do a good job at multitasking, but I also do a good job of telling myself. Hey, let me get myself just a little credit. You know, these children are alive. My nanny God bless her is still with me. You know, my parents are healthy. I do take care of of my parents. My husband is happy, right? Like I have so many things to be thankful for I Take 5 minutes just to say a few I did that right, you know, everything else bring it on. So a lot of people who listen to this podcast

Are in their first life or in their first career, and they're interested in involving or making a switch as someone who has gone from traditional medicine to being the CMO of a software company CMO being obviously different in this case, then traditionally what advice would you give someone who is interested in switching lanes or taking their career to the next level but it's a little bit scared about making that leap before I took the Levi would read everything I could about it, right if I wanted to go from here into a career in gardening or landscape engineering. The first thing I would do is go on the internet and read all about your folks that do it how they've done it where they've done it why they've done it one of their you know inclination. He's been I would make sure that I heard the worst things of the job too. And I would make sure that I have the gut because there are those days

Where nothing is happening, right? Like when we started heel and there were no visit and day after day went by and everyone who didn't believe but there's nothing nothing's going to come of this. Nothing's going to happen here. Right and the maybe they're gone now, maybe they took off and they're working somewhere else because they didn't believe and I am glad for it, but it's because in the end, they really weren't committed to the mission. So what is your mission? Are you really committed to it through and through and through you would in a fight for it in a court of law. That would be how I would Broach it and after you've done that for months and I mean months then I would start the steps of finding a Compadre to bounce ideas off of and maybe join you in the Venture. So you always have a yin and yang in your process and and take it from there. I love that. So the last question is my favorite question, which is if you could go back in time and speak with younger Renee and give her some advice.

At any point in her life, what would you say? I would say God you wasted so much time on so many stupid things and stupid people, you know, you just a foolish people get in your head and you didn't believe in yourself. You believe them. I listen to so many people who did not believe that I was fearless and I lost some time. They're well Renee that was phenomenal. We're done. I so appreciate your time. I really appreciate it.

That was the co-founder of heel. Dr. Renee Dua for more inspiring interviews with women like dr.dua head over to Second Life pot. Com where we have so many more for you to prove if you like today show, please subscribe on Apple podcasts or Spotify or wherever you get your podcast and don't forget to rate and review us. We love seeing you spell the word on social and now you can't a gas in your post. We are at Second Life pod on Twitter Instagram and Facebook. We always want to know who you like to hear from on the show. So sending you a request to hello at Second Life pod. Com, or you can just be a mess on Instagram. I met Hillary Kerr the shows at Second Life pod or DM's are always open.

I'm Hillary Kerr and you've been listening to Second Life.

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